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This isn't even about Roger anymore. It has turned into an argument over Bush and his policies. The way I look at it religion and political beliefs have a lot in common. You see, no one knows the best political system-everyone thinks they do, but really it is a belief. You belief in a conservative system or you believe in a socialist system, etc. But nonetheless you believe, which is different than knowing. Now in religion you believe is a certain God (or lack of), but you don't know if in the end your beliefs are correct or not. Now everyone I know believes in religious freedom, and right to hold beliefs even if it isn't the majorities belief. You can worship as you choose (so long as it doesn't infringe upon another's right).
Now could someone explain to me why you can't have certain beliefs when it comes to politics? Can someone explain why one can not believe in a certain type of government, but they can choose whatever God they wish? Could someone please explain why people are ridiculed and insulted over beliefs? The best debates are those based on facts-well guess what? There are few facts when it comes to political ideology!
Stop insulting one another by calling people idiots, Bush Freaks, terrorists amoung the other rude names. I would call it childish, but then I know my younger siblings would never act like this. This is just horrible the way people are being treated and responded to. There many things said that I do not agree with on this board but I will not resort to degrading someone. Furthermore I have seen some the most gross generalizations and suggestions on this topic, from both sides, and it sickens me to think that people are prejudice on this board.
I hope that this will be dropped, and that, as I said in the other topic, we can go back to discussions on music and lyrics-NOT Bush.
pakistanifloyd Wrote:To Jumpy:
Well, we all know who you are, you're another brick in the wall, just another Bush freak! I've been posting here for a long time, this is the first time i'm into a politcal debate, understood! I guess you got problems with my ID! I haven't been behaving like you! Btw go back to school and learn to behave and respect!
I've said at least two times, but for the slow, dimwitted, and terrorists on the board, I voted for Bush's opponents twice.
While I've long grasped the lack of depth to your intellect, Pakistanifloyd, thanks for revealing it to everyone else. And please tell us more about how Bush = Hitler.
And for anyone who wants to know what Pakistanitroll REALLY thinks about Roger, do a search on his posts starting from old to new. You'll find stuff almost as interesting as Bush = Hitler.
Sydney Wrote:This isn't even about Roger anymore. It has turned into an argument over Bush and his policies. The way I look at it religion and political beliefs have a lot in common. You see, no one knows the best political system-everyone thinks they do, but really it is a belief. You belief in a conservative system or you believe in a socialist system, etc. But nonetheless you believe, which is different than knowing. Now in religion you believe is a certain God (or lack of), but you don't know if in the end your beliefs are correct or not. Now everyone I know believes in religious freedom, and right to hold beliefs even if it isn't the majorities belief. You can worship as you choose (so long as it doesn't infringe upon another's right).
Now could someone explain to me why you can't have certain beliefs when it comes to politics? Can someone explain why one can not believe in a certain type of government, but they can choose whatever God they wish? Could someone please explain why people are ridiculed and insulted over beliefs? The best debates are those based on facts-well guess what? There are few facts when it comes to political ideology!
Stop insulting one another by calling people idiots, Bush Freaks, terrorists amoung the other rude names. I would call it childish, but then I know my younger siblings would never act like this. This is just horrible the way people are being treated and responded to. There many things said that I do not agree with on this board but I will not resort to degrading someone. Furthermore I have seen some the most gross generalizations and suggestions on this topic, from both sides, and it sickens me to think that people are prejudice on this board.
I hope that this will be dropped, and that, as I said in the other topic, we can go back to discussions on music and lyrics-NOT Bush.
Good post,but they are many people out there including myself and Roger that don't like the lies that come out of the whitehouse.pakistanifloyd is just saying the same things Roger is saying but in another way.Why does Roger believe that Bush should be impeached ?
Bush has been lieing from day one about this war that's why.
It's a known fact.I will show you the facts if you want.
Yes your right this is going beyond Roger talk and turning into politicts,but Roger shares the same view as me and pakistanifloyd.
Edited By Pinks Pig on 1158346609
Pinks Pig Wrote:Sydney Wrote:This isn't even about Roger anymore. It has turned into an argument over Bush and his policies. The way I look at it religion and political beliefs have a lot in common. You see, no one knows the best political system-everyone thinks they do, but really it is a belief. You belief in a conservative system or you believe in a socialist system, etc. But nonetheless you believe, which is different than knowing. Now in religion you believe is a certain God (or lack of), but you don't know if in the end your beliefs are correct or not. Now everyone I know believes in religious freedom, and right to hold beliefs even if it isn't the majorities belief. You can worship as you choose (so long as it doesn't infringe upon another's right).
Now could someone explain to me why you can't have certain beliefs when it comes to politics? Can someone explain why one can not believe in a certain type of government, but they can choose whatever God they wish? Could someone please explain why people are ridiculed and insulted over beliefs? The best debates are those based on facts-well guess what? There are few facts when it comes to political ideology!
Stop insulting one another by calling people idiots, Bush Freaks, terrorists amoung the other rude names. I would call it childish, but then I know my younger siblings would never act like this. This is just horrible the way people are being treated and responded to. There many things said that I do not agree with on this board but I will not resort to degrading someone. Furthermore I have seen some the most gross generalizations and suggestions on this topic, from both sides, and it sickens me to think that people are prejudice on this board.
I hope that this will be dropped, and that, as I said in the other topic, we can go back to discussions on music and lyrics-NOT Bush.
Good post,but they are many people out there including myself and Roger that don't like the lies that come out of the whitehouse.pakistanifloyd is just saying the same things Roger is saying but in another way.Why does Roger believe that Bush should be impeached ?Bush has been lieing from day one about this war that why.
It's a known fact.I will show you the facts if you want.
Yes your right this is going beyond Roger talk and turning into politicts,but Roger shares the same view as me and pakistanifloyd.
I don't really care what you believe or Pakistanifloyd believe or Jumpy or anyone else. You see it is none of my buisness. I never said anything about disagreeing with. I just think horrible how people are responding to eachother, especially on a matter which is based on beliefs. That's my post was about. I didn't call anyone out for their beliefs. You assume a lot about me, and you know what they say about some one who assumes. You shouldn't be so quick to judge, it seems to put you in line with your enemy.
Edited By Sydney on 1158346798
I think if we were all sitting around having a few beers or cups of coffees, this would be more of a discussion than an argument. With the exception of Pakistanifloyd, who shouldn't be allowed in the restaurant! :laugh:
But I don't know Sydney. No matter what you think about it, when Roger tours with visuals that say "Impeach the President," you're going to have this kind of debate. There's no escaping it.
He's being much more inflammatory than Natalie Maines from the Dixie Chicks, and look what happened to her.
Jumpy Wrote:I think if we were all sitting around having a few beers or cups of coffees, this would be more of a discussion than an argument. With the exception of Pakistanifloyd, who shouldn't be allowed in the restaurant! :laugh:
But I don't know Sydney. No matter what you think about it, when Roger tours with visuals that say "Impeach the President," you're going to have this kind of debate. There's no escaping it.
He's being much more inflammatory than Natalie Maines from the Dixie Chicks, and look what happened to her.
You're right. There is going to be discussion, and that's fine. Discussion is what makes the world go round. But it should be respectful discussion. And it should remain to the topic at hand rather than some of the ridiculness that has been brought up. I just hate the judgment going on here. Like I said before, politics and religion have a lot in common. One should not be insulted for their religious beliefs and that also applies to their political beliefs.
Coffee does sound nice though Jumpy. You can buy a round for us all. :;):
Sydney Wrote:Pinks Pig Wrote:Sydney Wrote:This isn't even about Roger anymore. It has turned into an argument over Bush and his policies. The way I look at it religion and political beliefs have a lot in common. You see, no one knows the best political system-everyone thinks they do, but really it is a belief. You belief in a conservative system or you believe in a socialist system, etc. But nonetheless you believe, which is different than knowing. Now in religion you believe is a certain God (or lack of), but you don't know if in the end your beliefs are correct or not. Now everyone I know believes in religious freedom, and right to hold beliefs even if it isn't the majorities belief. You can worship as you choose (so long as it doesn't infringe upon another's right).
Now could someone explain to me why you can't have certain beliefs when it comes to politics? Can someone explain why one can not believe in a certain type of government, but they can choose whatever God they wish? Could someone please explain why people are ridiculed and insulted over beliefs? The best debates are those based on facts-well guess what? There are few facts when it comes to political ideology!
Stop insulting one another by calling people idiots, Bush Freaks, terrorists amoung the other rude names. I would call it childish, but then I know my younger siblings would never act like this. This is just horrible the way people are being treated and responded to. There many things said that I do not agree with on this board but I will not resort to degrading someone. Furthermore I have seen some the most gross generalizations and suggestions on this topic, from both sides, and it sickens me to think that people are prejudice on this board.
I hope that this will be dropped, and that, as I said in the other topic, we can go back to discussions on music and lyrics-NOT Bush.
Good post,but they are many people out there including myself and Roger that don't like the lies that come out of the whitehouse.pakistanifloyd is just saying the same things Roger is saying but in another way.Why does Roger believe that Bush should be impeached ?Bush has been lieing from day one about this war that why.
It's a known fact.I will show you the facts if you want.
Yes your right this is going beyond Roger talk and turning into politicts,but Roger shares the same view as me and pakistanifloyd.
I don't really care what you believe or Pakistanifloyd believe or Jumpy or anyone else. You see it is none of my buisness. I never said anything about disagreeing with. I just think horrible how people are responding to eachother, especially on a matter which is based on beliefs. That's my post was about. I didn't call anyone out for their beliefs. You assume a lot about me, and you know what they say about some one who assumes. You shouldn't be so quick to judge, it seems to put you in line with your enemy.
Yes when people assume they make an ass out of themselves :D
You don't care what i or pakistanifloyd or jumpy believe but i think you do care what Roger's got to say otherwise you wont be in this thread.For sure calling people names is stupid and should be left in the school ground we are all Floyd fans here at the end of the day,like Jumpy said some of us are having beers and coffee and drink does go to ones head.
Pinks Pig Wrote:Good post,but they are many people out there including myself and Roger that don't like the lies that come out of the whitehouse.pakistanifloyd is just saying the same things Roger is saying but in another way.Why does Roger believe that Bush should be impeached ?
Bush has been lieing from day one about this war that's why.
It's a known fact.I will show you the facts if you want.
Yes your right this is going beyond Roger talk and turning into politicts,but Roger shares the same view as me and pakistanifloyd.
Right, Pinks Pig! you know the worst thing here is people insult you on your views.
And as Jumpy won't like me in a resturant, I'll stick in this forum.
Long Live Floyd!
pakistanifloyd Wrote:And as Jumpy won't like me in a resturant, I'll stick in this forum.
I'll buy you a cup of coffee as long as the others tactfully sit between us.
Music is not just a form of entertianment. Music is an art form. As well as a form of entertainment, it is also a form of expression. Like movies and books, music covers many topics and feelings. And like movies and books, there are many different catagories of music. Not all catagories we agree with or even like. Each song is written by a different writer and many times those writers use songs to express their feelings, wether it be about love, life or politics. That is the writer's right and if you don't agree with them then don't read their books, see their movies, play their CDs or go to their concerts.
I know many people go to concerts to escape having to think about the headlines in the news, reality, etc. But sorry buying that concert ticket doesn't give you the right to be able to go to a show and have it be free of political views. Do some research before you buy that ticket to make sure the artist (not entertainer but artist) is going to provide you with the experience you are hoping for. I went on a cruise in June, I didn't bother going to see the movie Posiden before I left for the cruise. Just like if I was trying to get my mind off of 9-11, I wouldn't go see the movie Flight 93.
So why after 30+ years of Roger having very strong and outspoken political views expressed through HIS music are people going to his concerts and bitching about the fact that his show has some strong poilitcal overtones? No sh-t, really?!?!? I thought "Us & Them", "Sheep", "Southampton Dock", etc. were all about drinking beer on the weekends and screwing my old lady. ROGER's version of Pink Floyd is very political and if after all this time you are just now getting it, then you haven't been paying attention. It's a bit like going to a gay bar and getting upset that guys are groping and kissing each other.
Sure let's all go see Roger perform Dark Side of the Moon! Let's have some beers, smoke some joints and forget about reality for the night. Wait a minute you mean to tell me that the whole theme of the album deals with Life and the reality of Life? That's not why I came here, me and the old lady dropped the kids off for the night and are looking to not have to think and be mindlessly entertained for the evening. Opps sorry, you bought a ticket for the wrong concert, maybe Justin Timberlake will be in town next week.
Check out Brain Damage on the newly released Pulse DVD. Oh my goodness, there's images of daddy Bush and Clinton being shown the same time they are mentioning lunatics. I want my money back. You don't buy a porno mag to read as a bedtime story to your kids at night. You don't put on a chick flick when the wife is out of town and all the guys are over to drink some beers. And you don't go to a Roger Water's concert if you are looking to escape from politics. Roger didn't just recently jump on the bash Bush bandwagon. His father was killed in war and he has expressed his dislike of world leader's and war for many years now.
Just because music is a form of entertainment it shouldn't have to be free of the artist's views or expressions of their beliefs. Afterall music is an art form and meant to express many different feeling or emotions. You have a choice when you buy that concert ticket. And just like buying a book or renting a movie find out first if this is really the kind of subject matter you want to watch. Wake up and pay some attention to the world around you.
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