08-13-2005, 02:28 PM
Intergalactic Wrote:Yeah this guy seems smart. He kind of reminds of that German guy, with the funny moustache, and powerful voice,OH !!!!! Sarcasm !!!!! Great post, Intergalactic ........ :;):
08-13-2005, 02:28 PM
08-13-2005, 02:48 PM
Well I am from the era of burning flags, bras and draft cards. Young people were shot for exercising their freedom of speech. If not shot, badly beaten. Yes, it's all true. I will defend the first amendment with my life if necessary. Artie, you spoke about laws on the books. What is sedition? Conspiracy to overthow the government, right? And I do believe there are laws on the books against hate crimes, although, I am not certain about that.
Lets refer back to 9/11. We did have info and warnings regarding the attack, but we failed to act on them. We dropped the ball. With the technology we have today, there is absolutely no reason why we can't track money. We do it everyday in business. Therefore we should know who is collecting monies from any agency. Have any of you ever had to deal with the IRS? It's time to hold our agencies as accountable as we do banks with monies. If our bank lost money from our personal account we would be screaming.
Finally, having said this, give AG some credit. You might not agree with him but he has given some thought to the problem at hand, i.e. fraud for example. Lets put it on the table and look at it, instead of hoping it will go away. It won't.
Edited By wiez on 1123973541
Lets refer back to 9/11. We did have info and warnings regarding the attack, but we failed to act on them. We dropped the ball. With the technology we have today, there is absolutely no reason why we can't track money. We do it everyday in business. Therefore we should know who is collecting monies from any agency. Have any of you ever had to deal with the IRS? It's time to hold our agencies as accountable as we do banks with monies. If our bank lost money from our personal account we would be screaming.
Finally, having said this, give AG some credit. You might not agree with him but he has given some thought to the problem at hand, i.e. fraud for example. Lets put it on the table and look at it, instead of hoping it will go away. It won't.
Edited By wiez on 1123973541
08-13-2005, 03:45 PM
I can't stand the Daily Mail title of this thread.
08-13-2005, 04:52 PM
Thanks for your views, Wiez. I'll look at your points:
I remember the era, too. But I suppose that my impression of the times were different - the Kent State incident was a near-riot situation where the National Guard was called out - which actually escalated things. It was ugly for everyone, but it was not quite as your post's wording reads: As if people were chosen because they were young, then strapped to trees and summarily executed, like had been happening to innocent people at the hands of Pol Pot. FOUR died in that riot because - why (?) ultimately, they didn't want to go to war? I feel all sick about the Kent deaths, not because the government was trying to quell a rebellion nearly as much as the kids on campus were WAY out of hand because Nixon was bombing the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia - and I think the kids were being dragged into the protests by communist sympathizers. Teens and early twenty-somethings being dragged into violent schemes by people who want to overthrow the US government... Sounds pretty familiar to me, as I recognize MANY people of that age think they know it all, but are as gullible as toddlers. Yes, I agree the first amendment is sacred and to be cherished, but a lack of flexibility on some folks's part will likely lead to a lack of security on everyone's part. Flex when necessary - or break. Of course, there IS the counterpoint from Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodia
I remember the pre-9/11 days pretty well, too. I remember the PC movement, and how SO MANY people were walking on eggshells so they wouldn't offend anyone - NO WONDER we dropped the ball! There would be a HUGE LAWSUIT if anyone was singled out, ESPECIALLY if he was of a racial/religious minority! If you recall 9/11, you should also recall how litigation-happy America was becoming, and you should also recall the reactive nature all governments and corporations had become. And with the technology we have today, the ACLU (et al) starts shouting, "Big Brother," if the money is being tracked. Basically, the ACLU seems more than happy to let America fall on her own sword - forgetting the fact that there are certain inalienable rights, including "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" as proscribed in the Decalartion of Independence. Truthfully, the terrorists are having fun mocking the West for these ambiguous and revolutionary laws - I'm sure they'd be more than happy we forsake them and adopt a more "Quranic slant." So, I'm not about to give up the rights - but I am willing to flex when necessary to provide for those three inalienable rights with true dedication. IOW, I'll BEND, but won't "BEND OVER." BTW, Wiez, you say you'd defend "the first" with your life - would you defend your nation with such zeal? How about the lives of others? What would you offer to give to save lives - your rights, or would you give your OWN life FIRST?
I am giving his idea credit. I didn't agree with his stance on drugs (still don't), and have not agreed with everything he has said elsewhere on this site, but I have made it a point to search my soul for good reasoning, no matter the source. To fail to do so is an extremely arrogant stance, and something I have never done (I tend to fail by overthinking sometimes because I genuinely try to weigh the lessons I've learned rather than shooting first and asking later). I propose that, with Parliamentary Procedure, we don't put it on the table - that we PICK IT UP in our hands and really take a good look.
Take care of your problems - or they'll take care of you.
Quote:Well I am from the era of burning flags, bras and draft cards. Young people were shot for exercising their freedom of speech. If not shot, badly beaten. Yes, it's all true. I will defend the first amendment with my life if necessary. Artie, you spoke about laws on the books. What is sedition? Conspiracy to overthow the government, right? And I do believe there are laws on the books against hate crimes, although, I am not certain about that.
I remember the era, too. But I suppose that my impression of the times were different - the Kent State incident was a near-riot situation where the National Guard was called out - which actually escalated things. It was ugly for everyone, but it was not quite as your post's wording reads: As if people were chosen because they were young, then strapped to trees and summarily executed, like had been happening to innocent people at the hands of Pol Pot. FOUR died in that riot because - why (?) ultimately, they didn't want to go to war? I feel all sick about the Kent deaths, not because the government was trying to quell a rebellion nearly as much as the kids on campus were WAY out of hand because Nixon was bombing the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia - and I think the kids were being dragged into the protests by communist sympathizers. Teens and early twenty-somethings being dragged into violent schemes by people who want to overthrow the US government... Sounds pretty familiar to me, as I recognize MANY people of that age think they know it all, but are as gullible as toddlers. Yes, I agree the first amendment is sacred and to be cherished, but a lack of flexibility on some folks's part will likely lead to a lack of security on everyone's part. Flex when necessary - or break. Of course, there IS the counterpoint from Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodia
Quote:Lets refer back to 9/11. We did have info and warnings regarding the attack, but we failed to act on them. We dropped the ball. With the technology we have today, there is absolutely no reason why we can't track money. We do it everyday in business. Therefore we should know who is collecting monies from any agency. Have any of you ever had to deal with the IRS? It's time to hold our agencies as accountable as we do banks with monies. If our bank lost money from our personal account we would be screaming.
I remember the pre-9/11 days pretty well, too. I remember the PC movement, and how SO MANY people were walking on eggshells so they wouldn't offend anyone - NO WONDER we dropped the ball! There would be a HUGE LAWSUIT if anyone was singled out, ESPECIALLY if he was of a racial/religious minority! If you recall 9/11, you should also recall how litigation-happy America was becoming, and you should also recall the reactive nature all governments and corporations had become. And with the technology we have today, the ACLU (et al) starts shouting, "Big Brother," if the money is being tracked. Basically, the ACLU seems more than happy to let America fall on her own sword - forgetting the fact that there are certain inalienable rights, including "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" as proscribed in the Decalartion of Independence. Truthfully, the terrorists are having fun mocking the West for these ambiguous and revolutionary laws - I'm sure they'd be more than happy we forsake them and adopt a more "Quranic slant." So, I'm not about to give up the rights - but I am willing to flex when necessary to provide for those three inalienable rights with true dedication. IOW, I'll BEND, but won't "BEND OVER." BTW, Wiez, you say you'd defend "the first" with your life - would you defend your nation with such zeal? How about the lives of others? What would you offer to give to save lives - your rights, or would you give your OWN life FIRST?
Quote:Finally, having said this, give AG some credit. You might not agree with him but he has given some thought to the problem at hand, i.e. fraud for example. Lets put it on the table and look at it, instead of hoping it will go away. It won't.
I am giving his idea credit. I didn't agree with his stance on drugs (still don't), and have not agreed with everything he has said elsewhere on this site, but I have made it a point to search my soul for good reasoning, no matter the source. To fail to do so is an extremely arrogant stance, and something I have never done (I tend to fail by overthinking sometimes because I genuinely try to weigh the lessons I've learned rather than shooting first and asking later). I propose that, with Parliamentary Procedure, we don't put it on the table - that we PICK IT UP in our hands and really take a good look.
Take care of your problems - or they'll take care of you.
08-13-2005, 04:53 PM
Pato Wrote:Nice and smart-alecky. Unfortunately, not very constructive. Don't tell us what you DON'T want, tell us what you DO want.Intergalactic Wrote:Yeah this guy seems smart. He kind of reminds of that German guy, with the funny moustache, and powerful voice,OH !!!!! Sarcasm !!!!! Great post, Intergalactic ........ :;):
08-13-2005, 05:48 PM
Alternate Gilmour Wrote:firstly....if you want to swear on this board, this is how you do it......MOTHERF.UCKER.Scream Thy Last Scream Wrote:[ right, here i go. your an asshole. the english were 900 years in my country. one man stopped them, and 7 herooes. the one man is michal collins. the seven heroes i am not mentioning, because you will think im a member of the i.r.a. the brits created a monster and a second middle east in 1922 ---northern ireland.You are one frakking moron. Everytime you post it gets more hilariously pathetic. You dolt.
you are a horrible person. you dont belong on this site. your attitudes are that of a coalition of warmongers. you ideals are that of a bush administration. your voice is like enoch powell. in the words of the moody blues.....go, NOW.
you've said your piece of dribble. you attacked anyone that answered, and still you believe you are right. last century, there was one man alone that had your attitude. he came from austria and idolised charlie chaplin.
i want you to remember one more thin. sarajevo. who helped the children there? oh! i forgot. no oil. no monetary gain.
get of that immoral high stance , because i'll attack you every time you post.
why are you bringing up past things that a country did and is doing. you were warned is right. enoch powell said it im his rivers of blood speech. do you think that ordinary citizens are going to stand back and let you kill children by bombing them?
would you?
now thats out of the way, your answer to my post proves what you are. i gave a reasonable explaation against your post, and what way did you answer me?
everytime i come across one of your posts. i answer it with something that is truthful and honest. not mentioning historical. and what way do you answer it?? with a typical childish attitude that cannot reply properly.
well, my friend. i think your time has come. if you support , movies, sport or politics, there is a black artist amongst them all. what have you got to say about them.
i remember the dublin bombings. the british were behind them. was there anyone ever caught for them? you answer that. i also rememember the birmingham six, and the maguire family. how long was it before they got justice.
you make me laugh about deportations. half of australia are descendants of irish people. and those irish were guilty of the like of stealing a loaf of bread for thier family.
i want you to answer these lines one by one. or dont post at all.
08-13-2005, 05:55 PM
Artie, thank you for your response. I wasn't singling you out Artie, merely responding to your comment about laws on the books.
Artie.....I remember Kent State. It wasn't a riot. The shootings began as an accident. One Guardsman became nervous and fired accidentally from what I recall. From what I recall one if not two victims were merely walking by. After the first shot, several more were loosed in the confusion as the kids ran for cover.
Would I give my life for the first amendment? I would like to believe I would. Odd that I am a direct descendent of Nathan Hale. I do know that when Martin Luther King was shot, as a student I went into the deans office and requested that they lower the flag. I know that this seems meaningless now, but at the time, I thought it was important. I have been front and center in a few minor photo opts when it came to speaking out. I guess I am just a product of the Kent State era. I don't always agree with our nations path (I am a Democrat) but one thing I do believe in is freedom and freedom of speech.
Artie.....I remember Kent State. It wasn't a riot. The shootings began as an accident. One Guardsman became nervous and fired accidentally from what I recall. From what I recall one if not two victims were merely walking by. After the first shot, several more were loosed in the confusion as the kids ran for cover.
Would I give my life for the first amendment? I would like to believe I would. Odd that I am a direct descendent of Nathan Hale. I do know that when Martin Luther King was shot, as a student I went into the deans office and requested that they lower the flag. I know that this seems meaningless now, but at the time, I thought it was important. I have been front and center in a few minor photo opts when it came to speaking out. I guess I am just a product of the Kent State era. I don't always agree with our nations path (I am a Democrat) but one thing I do believe in is freedom and freedom of speech.
08-13-2005, 06:07 PM
08-13-2005, 07:14 PM
08-13-2005, 07:27 PM
Scream Thy Last Scream Wrote:firstly....if you want to swear on this board, this is how you do it......MOTHERF.UCKER.Scream:
I thought that was another one of your MANY typos.
I'm not ganging up on you, but you obviously have an axe to grind that would be much better buried. I think you're being easily as argumentative as you're accusing AG of being. You say you're not, but I read your posts as being pretty harsh and abusive - if you toned it down a little, I'd surely take you more seriously. Maybe some others would, as well.
But, it's your right to free speech - just like people putting those bumber stickers on their cars that said, "S#!T HAPPENS." Those people thought it a great statement at the time, but most of the rest of us thought it was way over the top, and we just KNEW we didn't care to engage in conversations with people whose vocabularies were so limited that they had to use words like that so freely and thoughtlessly; especially in public. Subtle like a bullhorn.