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Waters or Gilmour? - jpendak - 01-23-2010 08:31 PM
Not to keep the Division Bell tolling, but it's too tempting. Which vital Floyd member do fans favor more, Roger Waters or David Gilmour?
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - Antwan the Swan - 01-23-2010 09:27 PM
What's the Division Bell you guys are talking about so much?
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - Lady Floydian - 01-23-2010 09:42 PM
I'm a Gilmour girl, always have been. Not that I hate Roger or anything, 95% of the stuff he wrote with Pink Floyd was exceptional. Just that I prefer David.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - Floydfan91 - 01-23-2010 10:56 PM
I like neither, I like Rick and Syd better. But Gilmour is why I play guitar and Rog is why I play bass.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - Elle - 01-24-2010 12:16 AM
gilmour, easily..
i love roger musically, but there's something about his persona that's pretty off putting.
but syd > gilmour.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - MaccaFan - 01-24-2010 03:47 AM
While I think Gilmour is an excellent guitarist, I love how creative Roger is. He was the one who created DSoTM, and The Wall. I choose Roger.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - Three Different Ones - 01-24-2010 07:59 AM
Roger...no question, for me anyways
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - Wings on the Pig - 01-24-2010 08:09 AM
It used to be Gilmour, but I am gradually shifting towards Roger if I'm honest. Besides, Syd was better than all of them.
That's twice I've used that smilie today, I must be going soft.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - Three Different Ones - 01-24-2010 08:27 AM
(01-24-2010 08:09 AM)Wings on the Pig Wrote: It used to be Gilmour, but I am gradually shifting towards Roger if I'm honest. Besides, Syd was better than all of them.
That's twice I've used that smilie today, I must be going soft.
and the first was to me<3
haha, and I agree with all that, cept the first part..it was never Dave for me...=P
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - azimuth - 01-24-2010 08:39 AM
David was the soul and Roger was the angst. David definitley.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - wet dream - 01-24-2010 01:57 PM
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - Lady Floydian - 01-24-2010 04:38 PM
I think the difference here is we're being asked which one we prefer, as opposed to a thread asking which one is better and then why we think that. The latter thread is more likely to start an argument/flame war than merely asking people "David or Roger"?
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - wet dream - 01-24-2010 06:05 PM
Ok , thanks for clearing that up.
I always preferred Pink Floyd, so a PF that had no RW to me was better than no PF.
RW without the other 3 just doesn't quite do it for me. I'm not into lyrics, I'm into the music.
My opinion only of course.
w d.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - quicksilver - 01-25-2010 01:33 PM
I've always been a David Gilmour guy. It goes without saying that Roger was a huge driving force in the band, both creatively and lyrically, but to me, the music or "Pink Floyd sound" if you will, was largely created by David and Rick Wright. If you listen to Lapse and Division Bell, you can tell its Pink Floyd right away. That's not a coincidence. Even all their solo records..same thing. My intent is not to rehash David vs Roger arguments, I'm sick of that. Its hard to get my point across without bringing up certain issues. David is a wonderful musician, who's voice and guitar shaped my favorite band.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - Pig (The Third One) - 01-25-2010 01:35 PM
(01-25-2010 01:33 PM)quicksilver Wrote: It goes without saying that Roger was a huge driving force in the band, both creatively and lyrically, but to me, the music or "Pink Floyd sound" if you will, was largely created by David and Rick Wright. If you listen to Lapse and Division Bell, you can tell its Pink Floyd right away. That's not a coincidence. Even all their solo records..same thing.
That whole paragraph is very very very true.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - cevor - 01-25-2010 02:56 PM
Agreed as well. Roger is Roger and there's no dismissing his role. I just prefer David all the way around. There is no Syd option, not that I'd take it, so he's better left out of the discussion.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - Lady Floydian - 01-25-2010 03:06 PM
(01-25-2010 01:33 PM)quicksilver Wrote: I've always been a David Gilmour guy. It goes without saying that Roger was a huge driving force in the band, both creatively and lyrically, but to me, the music or "Pink Floyd sound" if you will, was largely created by David and Rick Wright. If you listen to Lapse and Division Bell, you can tell its Pink Floyd right away. That's not a coincidence. Even all their solo records..same thing. My intent is not to rehash David vs Roger arguments, I'm sick of that. Its hard to get my point across without bringing up certain issues. David is a wonderful musician, who's voice and guitar shaped my favorite band.
Agree 100%. If not for Roger writing the songs, there would have been nothing for David to lend his voice and guitar to. I have always given Roger all the credit in the world for the extraordinarily amazing things he did for the band.
To me, music stands out before the lyrics. So in that respect, I'm going to pay more attention to the sound before I do the message. Which is why I prefer the albums that are a little more David/Rick heavy than Roger heavy.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - TheKunadiun - 01-25-2010 03:25 PM
i was gonna add but this has been very well covered I really agree with the points you guys made. both are incredible but it really depends what mood your in or really just your personal preference. they were both essential in completing pink floyd.
its hard to explain exactly what i mean but i hope some of that made sense.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - codayo61 - 01-25-2010 09:53 PM
For me I wouldnt go as far as to say that Post-Waters Floyd sounds the same. It just feels different to me you can feel how much more commercial it is, you can feel how much more Gilmour driven it is, it lacks that spacey feel as well.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - dogusu - 03-18-2010 01:30 PM
although dave is a kinder person and roger is a greedy ass, i gotta go with roger. he wrote all the classics and without him pink floyd would not have been popular.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - Arno Sluismans - 03-18-2010 01:34 PM
Roger Waters composes music. David Gilmour plays guitar. They're both among the best in the world in their own area of expertise, but when they switch jobs, they're mediocre.
I myself both play and write music. I know which of the two is harder, requires more creativity, is more time consuming, etc. Composing is. That's why I'll always love Roger more than Dave.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - Lady Floydian - 03-18-2010 03:04 PM
(03-18-2010 01:34 PM)Arno Sluismans Wrote: Roger Waters composes music. David Gilmour plays guitar.
David doesn't compose/write music? That's a new one. I guess you can always devalue someone's contributions by boiling everything down to the lowest common denominator.
Who do you think wrote all the music (along with Rick) to the lyrics that Roger was writing all those years, up to The Wall? Who wrote the music for Dogs on Animals? Who wrote the music for Comfortably Numb? Here's a hint, it wasn't Nick.
If David can't write or compose music, who wrote all the music for his three solo albums?
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - Arno Sluismans - 03-19-2010 08:28 AM
(03-18-2010 03:04 PM)Electrophile Wrote:(03-18-2010 01:34 PM)Arno Sluismans Wrote: Roger Waters composes music. David Gilmour plays guitar.
David doesn't compose/write music? That's a new one. I guess you can always devalue someone's contributions by boiling everything down to the lowest common denominator.
Who do you think wrote all the music (along with Rick) to the lyrics that Roger was writing all those years, up to The Wall? Who wrote the music for Dogs on Animals? Who wrote the music for Comfortably Numb? Here's a hint, it wasn't Nick.
If David can't write or compose music, who wrote all the music for his three solo albums?
Two things: Read the word "mediocre", and don't generalize everything you read. Sure, Gilmour has written some awesome songs, but he's not a songwriter at heart. Waters also did an amazing job playing the guitar on Pigs on the Wing (which is harder to play than one would think). Just look at the two post-Waters albums; theoretically, they're among the worst of the bunch. Seriously.
Anyway, to set the record straight, Gilmour is for sure a better songwriter than my original post showed... It wasn't a great wording. :p But still, Waters is a songwriter at heart, while Gilmour is a musician.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - Lady Floydian - 03-19-2010 10:01 AM
(03-19-2010 08:28 AM)Arno Sluismans Wrote:(03-18-2010 03:04 PM)Electrophile Wrote:(03-18-2010 01:34 PM)Arno Sluismans Wrote: Roger Waters composes music. David Gilmour plays guitar.
David doesn't compose/write music? That's a new one. I guess you can always devalue someone's contributions by boiling everything down to the lowest common denominator.
Who do you think wrote all the music (along with Rick) to the lyrics that Roger was writing all those years, up to The Wall? Who wrote the music for Dogs on Animals? Who wrote the music for Comfortably Numb? Here's a hint, it wasn't Nick.
If David can't write or compose music, who wrote all the music for his three solo albums?
Two things: Read the word "mediocre", and don't generalize everything you read. Sure, Gilmour has written some awesome songs, but he's not a songwriter at heart. Waters also did an amazing job playing the guitar on Pigs on the Wing (which is harder to play than one would think). Just look at the two post-Waters albums; theoretically, they're among the worst of the bunch. Seriously.
Anyway, to set the record straight, Gilmour is for sure a better songwriter than my original post showed... It wasn't a great wording. :p But still, Waters is a songwriter at heart, while Gilmour is a musician.
I'm inclined to believe Jon Carin, actually. Roger is a musician, David is an artist. And he's worked with them both in various capacities, and I think he'd know better than certainly you or I. Just because I prefer David to Roger doesn't mean I crap all over what Roger did with the group and as much as you want to pass off that you're not doing that - that's actually what you're doing. No, David isn't a songwriter at heart, he's admitted as much numerous times. But he's still a competent songwriter and a damn good writer of music, including damn near everything Pink Floyd did when Roger was in the group.
Also, it's your OPINION that AMLoR and The Division Bell are "the worst" of all their records. Putting "seriously" at the end doesn't change it from your opinion to a fact.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - wet dream - 03-20-2010 05:10 AM
(03-18-2010 01:34 PM)Arno Sluismans Wrote: Just look at the two post-Waters albums; theoretically, they're among the worst of the bunch. Seriously.
Seriously, you are joking?
History has already proved you wrong and always will.
AMLOR is a good LP and the Division Bell is a great LP.
The Final Cut (Wall MkII) will go down as the worst of the bunch if you were to ask me.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - Pig (The Third One) - 03-20-2010 05:44 AM
(03-19-2010 08:28 AM)Arno Sluismans Wrote: Gilmour has written some awesome songs, but he's not a songwriter at heart.
Quoted for falsity.
That statement is just total BS. 'Seriously'
And I feel no need to back up my statement with proof, because your ignorance does not deserve elaboration.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - Arno Sluismans - 03-20-2010 05:58 AM
Hmm, seems like the two threads in which I've expressed my opinions are full of people who read without trying to interpret. I don't know you guys, so I do not know how much you know of musical theory. Really, some things in music are factually better than other things, even when you're comparing high level music such as Roger's and David's. As I said before, you can like an album as much as you want, but facts don't change. Music is science, and if you guys aren't up to at least accepting that so some extent, there is no argument, no conversation.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - Lady Floydian - 03-20-2010 07:02 AM
You don't agree with our opinions. Saying we don't "get" musical theory and therefore because you do, your opinions are right and ours are wrong.......smacks of arrogance. This is the third or fourth time you've brought this up now.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - Arno Sluismans - 03-20-2010 02:51 PM
It smacks with arrogance? I'm merely describing the things I happen to know. I've been called "ignorant" before in this discussion (or a similar one in a different thread). Though being ignorant means, among other things, being uneducated, which simply isn't true. If I say something which is a simple fact, and you disagree with it, and I disagree with you, what exactly makes me arrogant?
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - Lady Floydian - 03-20-2010 03:37 PM
Have you ever heard the expression "It's not what you say, but HOW you say it?"
Nothing you've said in regards to David, Roger, Pink Floyd or their albums has been a fact. They've all been your opinions, which you're trying to pass off as facts. Ever think that may be why people are taking umbrage with your posts? It's arrogant to assume that your opinion is a fact, simply because you say so.
It's your opinion that A Momentary Lapse of Reason and The Division Bell are poor albums. It's your opinion that Roger is a better songwriter than David. Just like it's my opinion that those two records are very good and it's my opinion that David is a better songwriter than you're giving him credit for.
There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with people. We all do it here constantly. If you had said "In my opinion, AMLoR and TDB are poor albums", no one would have said anything past "I disagree" or "I agree". Those three words make a world of difference.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - Arno Sluismans - 03-20-2010 05:46 PM
I'm talking about the fact that there are really ways to determine, to "calculate" how good an album is.
On another note, I never said you can't love bad music. There's plenty music of which I know that it's trash, but which I still like (like Atom Heart Mother, haha. The rhythm is extremely inconsistent and the concept is completely inexistent, but I love listening to it. Just an example). Come to think of it, I've never actually disagreed with your opinion.
Also, that Roger is a composer, and David is a musician, shows through many, many things. If you want me to, I can make a post describing some of those things, but I'm not sure whether you'd care to read it, since you didn't really care to read my previous posts properly either.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - codayo61 - 03-20-2010 05:56 PM
I used to think David Gilmour sucked! Then I listened to all of his solo albums. I still dont think he has impressed me as much as Roger (with the exception of On an Island) but he has proven himself a very competent songwriter and an incredible musician as ussual.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - Roger Waters Jr - 04-02-2010 01:11 PM
(01-23-2010 09:42 PM)Electrophile Wrote: I'm a Gilmour girl...
Clever. XD
I appreciate both, and I listen to both artists' solo records, and honestly can't decide.
Pink Floyd wise, I enjoy The Final Cut a LOT. People are going to shoot me when I say I truly love it. It's within my top five. It's weird, I know. I also love The Wall.
However...doesn't it seem like the best songs ("Wish You Were Here," "Comfortably Numb," etc) are Gilmour? Or, at least, the latter was allegedly Dave. Roger states otherwise.
I enjoy AMLoR, but not TDB. I like Amused to Death as well as On An Island, though I think the latter is my favorite. By the time I heard ATD, Roger's antisocial ranting was getting really old.
And Dave just seems like a nice guy. Note how he talks respectfully of his fellow bandmates--past and present--whereas Roger criticizes everything about Dave. Not necessarily everything, sure, but he IS sort of a jerk. Actually, he's a huge jerk.
So maybe fifty fifty. I like Roger because of the emotion and interesting lyrics, but I like the feelgood tone of some Gilmour stuff, and his guitar work is absolutely stellar. There again, so is Roger's. Money, anyone?
No, seriously, though, I mean the song; I'm not actually giving away free money. :P
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - Lady Floydian - 04-04-2010 09:29 AM
I don't think anyone's going to come down on you for loving The Final Cut; there's a lot of people here who would agree with you. I'm not one of them, but that's okay.
The best songs/albums that PF did were a combination of Nick, Rick, David and Roger. Not any one more than another. They were the best when they worked together as a team, as a group. I agree that those songs happen to feature David heavily, either because he's singing them or did the bulk of the music writing, but there were still elements of everyone else in the songs. Especially Rick. David & Rick were the backbone of the "sound" that Pink Floyd had. Roger wrote the lyrics and Nick as the drummer, kept it all together.
I do agree with your assertion that David is a nice guy; I've never had the pleasure of meeting him but when I went to Chicago in 2006 to see his solo show at the Rosemont Theater, my friend DID get to meet him and said he was an absolutely charming person, which goes along with everything I've ever heard of him. Roger can be brusque at times, but who knows....maybe getting close to 70, he's mellowed out a bit.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - Pig (The Third One) - 04-04-2010 03:44 PM
(04-04-2010 09:29 AM)Electrophile Wrote: The best songs/albums that PF did were a combination of Nick, Rick, David and Roger. Not any one more than another. They were the best when they worked together as a team, as a group. I agree that those songs happen to feature David heavily, either because he's singing them or did the bulk of the music writing, but there were still elements of everyone else in the songs. Especially Rick. David & Rick were the backbone of the "sound" that Pink Floyd had. Roger wrote the lyrics and Nick as the drummer, kept it all together.
QFT.
That's honestly the best and most true paragraph ever written about Pink Floyd and the Waters vs Gilmour arguments.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - KirkOlson - 04-16-2010 07:21 PM
(01-24-2010 08:39 AM)azimuth Wrote: David was the soul and Roger was the angst. David definitley.
what he says
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - FlashTheReadiesWotsUhTheDeal - 04-29-2010 01:50 PM
Gilmour :)
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - Libbywaters74D - 05-23-2010 01:52 PM
while I like every member of Pink Floyd and almost every album Pink Floyd has done. Gilmours guitar and voice, Ricks cool keyboard sound and sweet sounding voice, Nick is very funny and I love his book, Syd's songs and where do I start about Syd he was very amazing. I would have to say Roger Waters is my favorite band member. I think he is a poet, I love his solo albums almost as much as his work with Pink Floyd, I think he is cute and I love how he speaks his mind without caring what others think of him. He is my favorite band member but this is how I feel and no one has to agree with me.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - bScott - 05-04-2012 07:20 AM
The way I see it they were a bit like Lennon and McCartney....both great, but clearly better when they were together. I think Waters was a bit more rare in his talent, but taken on their own Gilmour can make beautiful music while Waters needs help to translate his writing into a great performance.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - Seamus my old hound - 06-09-2012 01:10 PM
For me, Gilmour hands down.
Roger has taken (and has been given) too much credit for things he didn't actually do the way he claims. Don't get me wrong, I like Roger, but he does tick me off at times when I think of how he basically became the "Yoko Ono" of the band. Just think of what could have been if not for Roger's ego after The Wall?
To have the nerve to kick Rick out of the band and force him to beg to play as a session musician during The Wall tour.....or how that ego then moved on to forcing Nick to leave the band during The Final Cut recordings...then the idiotic lawsuit where Roger took the stance that if he leaves the band, the band is no more....really? Was that his stance when they pushed Syd out of the band as well....afterall the band WAS Syd's making. But I digress.
I simply prefer Dave's music over Roger's. Roger's just became too dark and depressing at times and as far as Roger being musical in his writing, his lyrics are some of the hardest stuff to write music to (this is a fact, not my opinion....I'm actually quoting a few people, Roger and Dave being some of them who have stated this).
I feel some of the bands best stuff was when they all contributed to a point. The only albums where it was mainly Roger was The Wall and Final Cut (which I feel is by far their worst album....it's a Roger solo album as far as I'm concerned considering Rick isn't on it and Nick left the band during sessions and then as Dave stated, he was totally uncooperative).
Note that the DB was an album where each of the members had full input and it shows. I feel the DB was one of their best albums in aspects of both lyrics and music. AMLOR, for me was just too commercial.
In concert, I'd take Dave over Roger any day of the week. I've seen them both on each solo tour they've done and feel Roger's shows are too scripted.
Ok, I'll step down now.
BTW - Give credit where it's due, DSOTM was more Rick's doing.
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - FireAndRust - 06-09-2012 08:46 PM
I tend to like Roger more, not that I don't like David, but I likr them together the best really
RE: Waters or Gilmour? - Seamus my old hound - 06-10-2012 09:32 PM
(06-09-2012 08:46 PM)FireAndRust Wrote: I tend to like Roger more, not that I don't like David, but I likr them together the best really
I have to agree. They tend to feed off each other and compliment each other at the same time. Plus, very few bands put out great music when they are all getting along, great music is usually the result of some minor infighting.