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Members [Request] - Joe - 11-21-2010 12:07 PM
So, I read in a couple of places that Roger Waters and David Gilmour weren't clickin'. Could someone tell me about this whole thing o,o?
Another thing is, what happened to Syd? I know he had a mental deterioration and had to leave, but what went wrong with him?
RE: Members [Request] - Lady Floydian - 11-21-2010 01:36 PM
The issues between David and Roger are rather well-known. As is what happened to Syd. Too much acid, rumors of a mental illness......either way, he did too many drugs, had a mental breakdown and dropped out of public life until his death.
RE: Members [Request] - Floydy - 11-21-2010 09:26 PM
There are plenty of good books on Pink Floyd. The best one I've read was Nick Masons book called Inside Out.Their falling out is to long-winded to go into detail here.
RE: Members [Request] - Joe - 11-22-2010 08:22 AM
What about Roger and David?
RE: Members [Request] - Lady Floydian - 11-22-2010 03:33 PM
It's been re-hashed to death here. What possible good could come of dragging that story out again? All it does is cause arguments and flame wars and I doubt the modmins here want that. Again.
But since you just have to know (what Floyd fan worth their salt doesn't know it?)........
David was a passive-aggressive asshole. Roger was an aggressive asshole. Until about 1975 they were able to work together and get sh!t done with a minimum of difficulty. Then Roger started seeing himself as the actual group, with everyone else merely playing the roles of supporting musicians whose job it was to go on stage and make him look good. David naturally, took some offense to that. So they argued. And argued. And argued. Rick got kicked of the band (please do not make me get into that, lest I will piss some people off) and David and Roger argued some more over that too. Finally Roger had enough and left the band. David, Nick and Rick chose to carry on as Pink Floyd, Roger didn't like that. He sued them to try and stop it. He failed. They went on to have two more successful albums and tours......Roger's solo career wasn't as hot. David and Roger to most people's knowledge didn't really speak to one another again until the time of Live 8. Things got increasingly better. They did the Hoping Foundation gig a few months ago, when most people never thought they'd share the same stage again. Now David will be making an appearance to do Comfortably Numb during one of Roger's shows, supposedly here in the States.
I hope that satisfies your curiosity.
RE: Members [Request] - Joe - 11-22-2010 08:21 PM
That's sad. Thanks.
RE: Members [Request] - Joe - 11-23-2010 08:37 AM
Could someone else tell me the reason Rick got kicked and who took the decision to do so, supposing there isn't a real leader for the band...
RE: Members [Request] - silverpot - 11-23-2010 11:00 AM
You can read everything here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Floyd
RE: Members [Request] - Joe - 11-23-2010 12:11 PM
Anybody else?
RE: Members [Request] - Lady Floydian - 11-23-2010 12:29 PM
You're not serious.
Go buy Nick Mason's book. He discusses it in detail. You should already own it anyway.
RE: Members [Request] - Arno Sluismans - 11-23-2010 12:53 PM
The way I see this, Roger was rather possessive of the band itself, and tried to purge it of people who were useless. And if possible, he was going to do it with some drama and attention. When they were working on The Wall, and later, The Final Cut, Rick and David were fed up with his egotism and reduced themselves to... doing nothing at all, actually. David wasn't writing any songs anymore, and Rick wasn't even playing his instrument anymore (he pretty much just sat around missing his family); they both knew that any effort to get involved would be in vain anyway. David was therefore removed from The Final Cut's producers list, and Rick was kicked out of the band - both decisions were made by Roger. ( Thinking about that, I honestly don't really get why he didn't just kick all of them out, and continued as Pink Floyd himself... :P If he'd have done that, his albums would have had AMLoR's and TDB's popularity, while those latter two would have been as popular as Amused To Death and The Pros And Cons Of Hitchhiking. :D ) Rick, I believe, did still tour for The Wall after being kicked, though - something Roger found a great idea. Or something.
All in all, it's just a story of greed. I'm sure that, seeing the tensions in the band, none of the members really saw a reason to continue with Pink Floyd like that, and it was just a matter of time before David/Rick/Nick would leave, or Roger would kick people out. I'm not sure what David would have done if he had been in Roger's shoes; Lady Floydian's "passive-aggressive" description is quite accurate. I've never liked David's personality one bit, but Roger was much, much worse during these times.
RE: Members [Request] - Lady Floydian - 11-23-2010 01:16 PM
(11-23-2010 12:53 PM)Arno Sluismans Wrote: Rick, I believe, did still tour for The Wall after being kicked, though - something Roger found a great idea. Or something.
Rick told Roger he'd leave the band but he wanted to do the songs live on tour. So he was the only person who made any money off that tour, as he was a salaried musician rather than a member of the group. From what Rick said about it, Roger didn't care.
BTW, when you were talking about The Final Cut, you kept saying Rick when you meant to say Nick. Rick was out of the band in 1979, so he wouldn't have been working on The Wall's follow-up.
RE: Members [Request] - Arno Sluismans - 11-23-2010 02:37 PM
I was talking about The Wall and The Final Cut together, in general. Nick isn't particularly mentionworthy in this case, as far as I know, since he didn't really get involved in much of the drama. Roger tried to bring his ego down by repeatedly hiring session drummers, though.
RE: Members [Request] - Joe - 11-24-2010 06:16 AM
Interesting...but still sad. Hypocrisy is sad. Anyway, speaking of Inside Out, if anyone ever comes to Egypt, make sure to get me a copy.
RE: Members [Request] - Arno Sluismans - 11-24-2010 09:57 AM
(11-24-2010 06:16 AM)Joe Wrote: Interesting...but still sad. Hypocrisy is sad. Anyway, speaking of Inside Out, if anyone ever comes to Egypt, make sure to get me a copy.
I guess Pink Floyd wouldn't be Pink Floyd without the drama. :)
RE: Members [Request] - Lady Floydian - 11-26-2010 12:57 PM
No it wouldn't, but I'm not sure what Joe is talking about re: hypocrisy. What I will say is that while it's easy to blame one person for Pink Floyd's disintegration, it would be intellectually dishonest to do so. All four of them (well, maybe all three of them) contributed in their own ways to the band breaking down. The person I felt the sorriest for in the whole debacle was Nick, because according to everything I've ever read/heard about the situation, he was totally blameless and was basically a victim of his circumstances. Which sucks.
RE: Members [Request] - silverpot - 11-26-2010 01:22 PM
It kind of turned out like in Animal Farm; some animals are more equal than others.
No, I don't feel sorry for Nick, and he has himself admitted that he sided with the school yard bully, when it came to ousting Rick from the band, because it was the way the tide was turning, then.
Later, when he found another leader, he changed allegiances, because he actually loathed the former's dictatorship, and now he scented a fresh air.
Nick is a very normal kind of human.
RE: Members [Request] - Joe - 11-26-2010 01:38 PM
I think I missemployed the word hypocrisy. I probably meant delusion or disappointment.
RE: Members [Request] - Joe - 11-30-2010 01:18 PM
So, I was just reading up on Roger Water's solo career, and it was a misery! Eric Clapton dumped him in the middle of his tour in Canada, and he lost 400,000EPs on that tour of his. I find this interesting; it really isn't all about Roger Waters after-all.
On this note:
"Together we stand. Divided we fall"
-Hey You 30, Nov, 1979.
RE: Members [Request] - Lady Floydian - 11-30-2010 03:37 PM
What tour are you talking about? While Roger's solo career wasn't at the level his success was with Pink Floyd, his tours have always done quite well, especially from 1999-present. His tour for Radio K.A.O.S. was a bit interesting, as he was touring the same time Pink Floyd was and there occasions when they'd be playing the same city one day apart.
RE: Members [Request] - Joe - 12-01-2010 06:45 AM
Stockholm 1984
RE: Members [Request] - Arno Sluismans - 12-01-2010 08:58 AM
Roger's disadvantage was, as I said earlier, the fact that he was no longer using the "Pink Floyd" name to represent his music. Casual Pink Floyd fans don't know his name, and while they'd still go to see David, Rick and Nick, they wouldn't go to see Roger, just because of that reason. While - for instance - people who like The Wall a lot are often more inclined to like Roger's solo stuff than to like Pink Floyd's post-Waters stuff. But many don't, since he's not "Pink Floyd".
What happened back then shouldn't be blamed on Nick, by the way. And yes, I feel sorry for him. It's completely normal for him to stay at the winner's side. After all, he was "merely" the drummer of the band, and he was certainly not able to sort things out himself. When your job relies on it, I think it's logical that you just go for whatever is most secure.
RE: Members [Request] - Joe - 12-01-2010 11:28 AM
I understand. I was more inclined to Roger Waters since I began as a The Wall-fan, and I still like Roger's heavily influenced music, such as The Final Cut, and Wish You Were Here. But, knowing he was an egocentric person who considered himself the main source of intellect/creativity in the band saddens me.
But, yeah, one of the reasons I really like Pink Floyd is because of the mixture of Waters, Gilmour and Wright. Opera, rock and jazz.
RE: Members [Request] - silverpot - 12-01-2010 11:43 AM
(12-01-2010 11:28 AM)Joe Wrote: I understand. I was more inclined to Roger Waters since I began as a The Wall-fan, and I still like Roger's heavily influenced music, such as The Final Cut, and Wish You Were Here. But, knowing he was an egocentric person who considered himself the main source of intellect/creativity in the band saddens me.
But, yeah, one of the reasons I really like Pink Floyd is because of the mixture of Waters, Gilmour and Wright. Opera, rock and jazz.
Interesting that you feel like Wish You Were Here is heavily influenced by Roger. My feeling is completely the opposite, to me it's a Gilmour/wright album all the way, musically.
The Final Cut is of course Roger's baby from start to finish, that's why it's so different from WYWH.
RE: Members [Request] - Lady Floydian - 12-01-2010 01:46 PM
WYWH is Rick Wright from start to finish. You can't listen to a song on that album without both hearing him and his style all over the place. Roger wrote the lyrics and David's musical input is very striking but that album has always been the best of Rick to me.