Philintheflesh Wrote:

mabewa Wrote:

Three Different Ones Wrote:Y DNT U TLK 2 ME
U NVR TLK 2 ME
WUT R U FLN
I FL LYK IM DRWNIN

Totally mature. I see what you mean

The lyrics of "Keep Talking" get some brickbats, but the interesting thing is, people actually "communicate" in this way, almost word-for-word. So, it fits the album's larger theme of failure to communicate very well.

Yep. No "brickbats" from me on this one. I`m the first to point out the limitations of the Samson/Gilmour lyrical content, but I have no problems with this song, because the whole theme of it is about the limitations of language....so the lack of articulacy is intentional...if you catch my drift.
One of my faves from the Gilmour-led Floyd, I think.

I'm glad you agree--I think the song works very well for its subject matter. It iss exactly how people communicate when they are having trouble communicating. If the song were articulate, it would kind of defeat its own purpose.

On a funny side note, I saw The Police the other night (first time in like 25 years!), and they played Do De De, Do Da Da. I'm heard so many people ridicule that song, but if you listen to the verses, the whole thing is about, again, the limitations of language. So, a nonsense chorus is perfect:

poets priests and politicians
have words to thank for their positions
words that scream for your submission
and no-one's jamming their transmission
and when their eloquence escapes me
their logic ties me up and rapes me...

mabewa Wrote:[quote=Philintheflesh]
[quote=mabewa]
I'm glad you agree--I think the song works very well for its subject matter. It iss exactly how people communicate when they are having trouble communicating. If the song were articulate, it would kind of defeat its own purpose.

On a funny side note, I saw The Police the other night (first time in like 25 years!), and they played Do De De, Do Da Da. I'm heard so many people ridicule that song, but if you listen to the verses, the whole thing is about, again, the limitations of language. So, a nonsense chorus is perfect:

poets priests and politicians
have words to thank for their positions
words that scream for your submission
and no-one's jamming their transmission
and when their eloquence escapes me
their logic ties me up and rapes me...

Yep. Good parallel...and a good song...ennui-inducing political/religious sophistry is what the Stingmeister is getting at.....language as smoke-screen, "screaming for your submission".

Philintheflesh Wrote:

mabewa Wrote:[quote=Philintheflesh]
[quote=mabewa]
I'm glad you agree--I think the song works very well for its subject matter. It iss exactly how people communicate when they are having trouble communicating. If the song were articulate, it would kind of defeat its own purpose.

On a funny side note, I saw The Police the other night (first time in like 25 years!), and they played Do De De, Do Da Da. I'm heard so many people ridicule that song, but if you listen to the verses, the whole thing is about, again, the limitations of language. So, a nonsense chorus is perfect:

poets priests and politicians
have words to thank for their positions
words that scream for your submission
and no-one's jamming their transmission
and when their eloquence escapes me
their logic ties me up and rapes me...

Yep. Good parallel...and a good song...ennui-inducing political/religious sophistry is what the Stingmeister is getting at.....language as smoke-screen, "screaming for your submission".

I guess that the two songs, despite the common theme of "limitation of language" are quite different in a way--one is about about being inarticulate, and the other is about overwhelming others with words.

But, what I really notice about both songs is that people misinterpret them in a similar way--noticing only the simplicity or repetitiveness, but not realizing that these elements are a big part of the point the songwriters were trying to make.

In general, a lot of TDB seems to take a more basic approach to lyric-writing which for me works fairly well. With AMLOR, I felt that Dave and his buddies were really biting off more than they could chew (Dogs of War is an almost comical example of this), but TDB's lyrics don't seem to overreach or imitate Roger as much, which makes them more effective in my mind. It kind of brings me back to stuff like Childhood's End or Fat Old Sun--obviously, those songs were recorded before Roger had really become the lyricist for PF, so there was a more open-ended idea of what PF lyrics could be. If you expect the post-Waters PF (or Dave and Rick's solo albums) to have lyrics like Roger's, you are going to be disappointed, but if you can accept those lyrics on their own terms without comparing them to Roger, I find that TDB, Broken China and On an Island are all quite effective lyrically.

mabewa Wrote:but TDB's lyrics don't seem to overreach or imitate Roger as much, which makes them more effective in my mind. It kind of brings me back to stuff like Childhood's End or Fat Old Sun--obviously, those songs were recorded before Roger had really become the lyricist for PF, so there was a more open-ended idea of what PF lyrics could be. If you expect the post-Waters PF (or Dave and Rick's solo albums) to have lyrics like Roger's, you are going to be disappointed, but if you can accept those lyrics on their own terms without comparing them to Roger, I find that TDB, Broken China and On an Island are all quite effective lyrically.

I agree totally---good stuff!

raving_and_drooling Wrote:

mabewa Wrote:but TDB's lyrics don't seem to overreach or imitate Roger as much, which makes them more effective in my mind. It kind of brings me back to stuff like Childhood's End or Fat Old Sun--obviously, those songs were recorded before Roger had really become the lyricist for PF, so there was a more open-ended idea of what PF lyrics could be. If you expect the post-Waters PF (or Dave and Rick's solo albums) to have lyrics like Roger's, you are going to be disappointed, but if you can accept those lyrics on their own terms without comparing them to Roger, I find that TDB, Broken China and On an Island are all quite effective lyrically.

I agree totally---good stuff!

Thanks!

Basically, I think that Floyd could have hired Bob Dylan to do the lyrics after Roger left, and people still would have complained, because, face it, only Roger writes like Roger. But, personally, I like a lot of early Floyd, when Roger wasn't the only lyricist, and when Roger's lyrical style hadn't really emerged yet. So, to me, it's quite possible to have effective Floyd without Roger's signature lyric style.

The main reason why I was disappointed with TDB, was because it was too senseless. Sure there are some great numbers on it (Coming back to life, High Hopes), but I'd prefer a Roger Waters-era Pink Floyd album any day.

Rest in peace, play some great gigs in the sky

Rest in peace, play some great gigs in the sky