(05-10-2011 04:46 AM)wet dream Wrote:  Sorry Joe, I don't read religious books or text, the closest I've got is the back cover of Tull's Aqualung.
Guilty, I get some info from the media, that's a free and uncensored media.

I don't see where else you can get your info other than the media if you don't read religious books. You don't get some info from the media, you get all of your info from the media; a very unreliable source.

(05-10-2011 04:46 AM)wet dream Wrote:  Now you've got me in stitches.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13331628
It seems not much has changed there in the last 55 years

.
These attacks were organised by salafists, not Muslims. Casual muslims are very peaceful and smiple people.

(05-10-2011 04:46 AM)wet dream Wrote:  Then there's the loony pastor is the US with about 50 followers out of around 300 million people, who burns a koran. The reaction was appalling.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4nDsKzp1no

At no point, these guys protest against the loony pastor. The guy at around 0:50 seconds in is smashing a weapon, which is an obvious expression of how sick he has become of killing, and violence. However, I will suppose that this demonstration was organised for the Quran burning for the sake of the discussion. This does not, by any means, tarnish Islam's peaceful means. Born muslims being violent does not mean Islam is violent.

(05-10-2011 04:46 AM)wet dream Wrote:  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/15...http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/15/lara-logan-suffered-bruta_n_8

They should either covered the whole story with all of the details mentioned or nothing at all. The story is very vague, and unclear. And also, this does not contribute to your argument about Islam's violence. Not to mention, I was there, and I was probably as "sexually assaulted" as this woman was. It was very crowded. Believe it or not, every single woman had at least 4 guys around her holding hands, forming some sort of a wall, to protect her from being unintentionally touched. If you're gonna go swimming, you're going to get wet, and this woman had to take her precautions. That's off the record, though because this has nothing to do with Islam.

(05-10-2011 04:46 AM)wet dream Wrote:  Like a said before, maybe you're telling the wrong people.

I don't know what this means.

(05-10-2011 04:46 AM)wet dream Wrote:  For a non believer, you're awfully defensive about a particular religion.

I'm not awfully defensive. You're being awfully offensive without presenting any reliable sources and grounds to your arguments. All you're doing is pre-judging, and even though I'm a non believer, Islam represents my culture and identity which is something I respect, and I appreciate others to respect. On a side note, can I call Christianity a violent religion because the KKK were extremely hostile to jews, catholics, and afro-americans? You're using the same logic.

(05-07-2011 05:27 PM)forreverendgreen Wrote:  Religion, a lot of the time, brings out the best of humanity,

I honestly don't think this is true.

I do. Not everyone who is religious is some madman/madwomen hell-bent on killing as many people as they can. The vast, vast majority of religious people on this planet are law-abiding people, who just happen to believe in a God/Gods. There's nothing wrong with that. It's not for me, but that doesn't mean it can't be for someone else. IMO, it's wrong to assume that because there are groups/sects out there perverting their religion's holy scripture for their own personal gain, that means that religion as a whole or that particular denomination as a whole is bad.

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(05-10-2011 01:32 PM)Joe Wrote:  On a side note, can I call Christianity a violent religion because the KKK were extremely hostile to jews, catholics, and afro-americans? You're using the same logic.

I understand where you're going here, but it wouldn't be applicable to use the KKK in this example. While the KKK were/are terrorists, they are not Christian terrorists, as their faith is not the driving force behind their actions. They didn't lynch black people because the Bible told them to. Radical Islamic terrorists take actual quotes out of the Qu'ran and say "Well, it really means this!"....and then act accordingly. The KKK never used the Bible as justification for what they did, or what they continue to do.

If that is the case, then they must be the worst readers ever.

(05-10-2011 01:32 PM)Joe Wrote:  I don't see where else you can get your info other than the media if you don't read religious books. You don't get some info from the media, you get all of your info from the media; a very unreliable source.

I didn't make a mistake, I did type most and meant it. Three generations of my family were born in Egypt.

(05-10-2011 01:32 PM)Joe Wrote:  These attacks were organised by salafists, not Muslims. Casual muslims are very peaceful and smiple people.

I can't find salafist in my Dictionary. If somebody calls themselves a Muslim, then they are a Muslim.
I do agree with most Muslims are peaceful people, but there are some who use it for very violent means. Most or all of these people call themselves Muslims, so do I. You call them other things. Bin Laden's was a devoured Muslim, he was asking them to rise up against non believers, non believers of the Muslim faith that is.

(05-10-2011 01:32 PM)Joe Wrote:  However, I will suppose that this demonstration was organised for the Quran burning for the sake of the discussion. This does not, by any means, tarnish Islam's peaceful means. Born muslims being violent does not mean Islam is violent.

OK so born Muslims can be violent, I think I agree with this statement but I don't really understand it.

(05-10-2011 01:32 PM)Joe Wrote:  Not to mention, I was there, and I was probably as "sexually assaulted" as this woman was. It was very crowded. Believe it or not, every single woman had at least 4 guys around her holding hands, forming some sort of a wall, to protect her from being unintentionally touched. If you're gonna go swimming, you're going to get wet, and this woman had to take her precautions. That's off the record, though because this has nothing to do with Islam.

I hope you didn't need any internal stitches. Yes the media, but it was her words in a interview, not a nice story.
Some Muslims treat women very poorly, you may not call them Muslims, I do because that's what they call themselves.
In Afghanistan they kill or maim girls or women who go to school. In some parts of Pakistan they do the same. I would love to see more women lead Islamic country's, especially Afghanistan.

(05-10-2011 01:32 PM)Joe Wrote:  Like a said before, maybe you're telling the wrong people.
I don't know what this means.

(05-08-2011 04:49 PM)wet dream Wrote:  Maybe you telling this to wrong people, try northern Pakistan.

The Extremest or whatever else you call them.

(05-10-2011 01:32 PM)Joe Wrote:  For a non believer, you're awfully defensive about a particular religion.
I'm not awfully defensive. You're being awfully offensive without presenting any reliable sources and grounds to your arguments. All you're doing is pre-judging, and even though I'm a non believer, Islam represents my culture and identity which is something I respect, and I appreciate others to respect. On a side note, can I call Christianity a violent religion because the KKK were extremely hostile to jews, catholics, and afro-americans? You're using the same logic.

Joe I'm just going to have to agree to disagree.
My culture and identity is my country, I respect our freedom and how we got it. I respect the fact that we have freedom of religion including no religion. I respect our free and independent press.
And yes, I agree Christianity has some very dark pages in the book of history.

No, I am not going to agree to disagree. You're being completely illogical. Today, I'm going to call myself American, and I'm going to organise a mass homicide. Bam, all Americans are dirty murders. That's exactly the same logic you're using, and it does not make any sense to me.

You're not what you call yourself just because you called yourself whatever it is you think you are. Islam is peaceful. The so called Muslims who organise suicide bombings and other acts of terror are not...therefore, they're not even considered Muslims. They're misled, sick, narrow-minded folks.

(05-10-2011 05:38 PM)Lady Floydian Wrote:  I do. Not everyone who is religious is some madman/madwomen hell-bent on killing as many people as they can. The vast, vast majority of religious people on this planet are law-abiding people, who just happen to believe in a God/Gods. There's nothing wrong with that. It's not for me, but that doesn't mean it can't be for someone else. IMO, it's wrong to assume that because there are groups/sects out there perverting their religion's holy scripture for their own personal gain, that means that religion as a whole or that particular denomination as a whole is bad.

That's not what I'm trying to say. What I'm saying is that being religious doesn't make you a better person, just like not being religious doesn't make you a better person. The correlation between religiousness and lawfulness equals zero (and actually, some statistics even claim that it is negative).

(05-10-2011 04:46 AM)wet dream Wrote:  I saw this lady interviewed the other night, talk about no respect for woman.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/15...http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/15/lara-logan-suffered-bruta_n_8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO12X1nhz...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO12X1nhzzk&feature=playe
This is quite saddening.

It still brings tears to my eyes and I hang my head in shame for the human race.
Joe I know Egypt is going through a exciting but also dangerous time, Well done with getting your freedom, But my heart and pain is with the Syrians at the moment. Again I wish Muslims would confront this problem. I can't see the west getting involved in this one thanks to Russia and China. Innocent people being killed for the sake of a mad man and his machine desire to hold onto power.
Shine On Mate.
PS; I've got my Wall Tickets and thank you to Roger for not forgetting us down here. David hasn't been down since February 1988.

Enough is enough.
It's time to arm the opposition in Syria and to raise money for the displaced and wounded.
What a fucked up world we live in, the only group to declare it's support for the opposition is Alkida. (I'm not going to spell it correctly for security reasons.)
Before I die I hope to see that piece of shit ruling that country in the Hague.