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scalzmoney · 05-30-2006 05:54 PM

I disagree with most of you. I think the live versions on Pulse and Delicate Sound are sucky. I don't like all the reverb and echo on the track. The original is so intimate and solid. They can't use Roger's voice in the outro which is like, the signature of the whole song and despite Dave's original solos the rest of the musicianship is lacking.

I love the ITF version because of Graham Broad's drumming. As far as a live drummer goes, you'd be hard pressed to find better. I really like DBII's soloing, too.

At least Roger has the balls to play the song in context, with Happiest Days, et al. Dave's band always just seems to launch into in out of nowhere.

I dislike the female back-up singers on all versions of the song. The problem again is that the song is best when Rog and Dave sing it together. Even the tedious keyboard solo on ITAOT version is tollerable when proceeded by the real vocals of Dave and Rog and the recorded voices of the children.

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welcome_to_the_dark_side · 05-31-2006 10:01 AM

If you want to hear the best version listen to roger's KAOS tour 87 (quebec show), better than studio version.

:music:

mabewa · 05-31-2006 05:04 PM

I agree that the song sounds better with Dave and Roger singing together, and that the backing singers are out of place.

Just out of curiousity, though, what does "balls" have to do with the decision to play "Happiest Days of Our Lives?" I agree that the two songs are better together, but I'm kind of mystified by the several assertations I've read on this board lately about Roger having the "balls" to do this or that and Dave lacking the same. It seems totally out of context with the discussion at hand.

Edited By mabewa on 1149126919

Eclipse73 · 06-01-2006 01:16 AM

Guitar player is quite bad in that version.Particularly soloing!

welcome_to_the_dark_side · 06-01-2006 06:46 AM

mabewa Wrote:what does "balls" have to do with the decision to play "Happiest Days of Our Lives?"

I totally agree with scalzmoney.

Having balls means playing the songs in context, including the intro to the songs. "Happiest Days of Our Lives" is the intro to ABITW and roger plays it. Gilmour tends to stay with well known songs. Another example is "Pigs On The Wing".

Another case of having balls is to play the songs in a different way from the original version (taking risks) and roger do that. If you listen to Pros And Cons, Kaos and ITF tours you will notice.
Generally, gilmour plays the songs as in studio.

My opinion...

rocker

mabewa · 06-01-2006 07:14 AM

Quote:Having balls means playing the songs in context, including the intro to the songs. "Happiest Days of Our Lives" is the intro to ABITW and roger plays it. Gilmour tends to stay with well known songs. Another example is "Pigs On The Wing".

Another case of having balls is to play the songs in a different way from the original version (taking risks) and roger do that. If you listen to Pros And Cons, Kaos and ITF tours you will notice.
Generally, gilmour plays the songs as in studio.

My opinion...

Well, to tell the truth, I think that the whole "balls" thing is just more of the tired Gilmour/Waters pettiness that has been dividing Floyd fans for two decades now. This is not anything agaist Scalzmoney--I agreed with much of his post, and he's not the first one to bring up the "balls" arguement. But, to be honest, it all sounds like high-school stuff to me, and most of these arguments by both Roger and Dave partisans just don't hold water.

For example: your post says "Gilmour tends to stay with well-known songs." I'm not sure if "Fat Old Sun," "Wots the Deal," "Arnold Layne," and "Wearing the Inside Out" are exactly examples of well-known songs compared to most of what Roger is playing in his set (virtually nothing from before DSOTM). You could also argue that playing both Echoes and SOYCD in the same set is an example of having "balls," or that opening a set with an entire new album shows more "balls" than playing only two songs from the last 2 decades.

Also, "generally Gilmour plays songs as in the studio"; that argument can cut both ways too. Gilmour's SOYCD is one of the most radical rearrangings that a Floyd song has undergone. When Roger plays "Comfortably Numb," his singers try to mimic Dave's vocal parts as much as possible, while Roger's parts were done totally differently (as a multi-part harmony) on the About Face, Momentary Lapse and Division Bell tours. Meanwhile, Roger who uses three guitarists to play David's parts, and is said to get them to play as much like the record as possible.

My point here is not that Gilmour (or Roger) has more "balls," but just that all of these kind of pecking order, one-upping comparisons can work both ways, and can go around and around endlessly, not accomplishing anything except for dividing the PF fanbase. There's nothing wrong with saying "I like X version better than Y version," but I'm not sure why some of the Dave and Roger partisans always have to see things as a competition: "Dave's voice is in better shape than Roger's" (who cares--can't we judge Roger's voice on his own merits?) or "Dave doesn't have enough balls to play Dogs and Roger does" (I'd like to see Dave play it, but the fact that Roger does play it has about as much relevance as the fact that Dave plays Echoes and Roger doesn't--in other words, no relevance at all).

If Floyd has to stay broken-up (and they probably will), then I'm personally very glad that Dave and Roger don't play exactly the same setlist in the same way: wouldn't it be boring if they did? As it is, by seeing Dave and Roger, you can hear Echoes AND Dogs AND SOYCD, which a Floyd reunion tour probably wouldn't be able to squeeze in. Vive le diference, I say.

Edited By mabewa on 1149175356

kevycanavan · 06-01-2006 07:22 AM

yea the version on ITF is really really bad. the worst thing ironically about it is the bass playing. rog obviously couldnt be arsed tuning his bass down to drop d so its all wrong. for me the bass line is the hook.
to be fair though by the time i went to see him in Dublin which was one of the last shows on the tour he had sorted it out.
he had also sorted out the problem of his terrible lead guitarist...he was replaced

welcome_to_the_dark_side · 06-01-2006 08:12 AM

No. This is not to continue that debate but i noticed that roger plays the songs differentely for each tour. And this is a risk he take. And apparently that's what he want to do.

For sure, during his last tour dave played Fat Old Sun, Wots the Deal, etc... but this is new (maybe he have more balls than before?). During the 2 last PF tours, only big hits.

And It's not true that roger played nothing from before DSOTM. He played If, Set The Controls, Arnold Lane, ... during the KAOS tour.

For the opening a set with an entire new album, it's normal to do it when you have a new album out. If you are referring to ITF tour, roger had no album out at that time, but played new songs that no one have heard before.

If you think that roger get musicians to play as much like the record as possible, listen to his different tours and you will hear the difference. Maybe he left PF because he wanted to play with different guitarists and do something different?

:;):

mabewa · 06-01-2006 04:58 PM

Well, as I said, you can keep the debate going endlessly. I could counter the points you make below, and then you would counter mine, and I would counter yours, and so on.But what's the point?

Personally, if I look at Roger's latest setlist, I see some things that I am quite pleased with (some nice shakups and songs that haven't been played for a while) and some things that I am quite disappointed with (yet another one of my favorite artists seems to have entered the dreaded "nostagia act" phase).

Similarily, when I look at Dave's setlist, you get some very cool, and in my opinion, daring song choices, and it's nice that he's playing an entire new album live (first time any of the Floyds have done that since the 80's), but he's pretending that his excellent first two solo albums don't exist, which I think is... lame--how hard would it be to drop one of those songs in from time to time?

So you see, it's possible to critique these things on their own merit, rather than having this be an endless competition between the ex-Floyd members. I think that Floyd fans have been separated into camps for so long that it never occurs to many people that there may be no useful point at all in putting certain members down at the expense of others, and that their pet member may be guilty of the same things that they criticize the other Floyd members for. Personally, my favorite Floyd member is Rick Wright, so I get kind of tired of hearing endlessly about whether Dave is better or Roger is better, as though they were the only two important members of Floyd.

I think that Whong's original point in making this post was to argue that this is a song we've gotten in a lot of setlists, and in his opinion, it doesn't come across well live, yet we still get it. So, it's kind of a drag, as we could be hearing other, better, and more effective songs in its place. This is not a comparison or a put-down of Roger (obviously, Whong is a huge Roger fan), but an example of assessing something on its own merits.

Ironically, I think that this is yet another example of something that both Waters and the post-Waters Floyd are guilty of: playing an ineffective song live solely because it was a big hit. It's not a very remarkable song, and it would never have been a hit without Bob Ezrin's radically rearranging: the disco beat, the two verses and the kids.

Furthermore, because of the fact that half the vocals were done by the kids, playing it live requires that A). half of the vocals be piped in, or B). the song be rearranged, which presumably means more use of the already overused female backing singers (another thing that both "sides" have been guilty of). Then, you have the issue of the vocal parts that Floyd sang: it was a Roger/Dave duet, and I personally don't think that it sounds right with just one of them singing.

Yet hey, it was a big hit, and you don't want to disappoint those FM radio listeners who want to hear the hits, now do you? Maybe they might think it's not the "real" Pink Floyd!

In that sense, I think that both Waters and the post-Waters Floyd have exhibited a severe lack of balls. Having balls would be saying "hey, this song doesn't work well live--let's play something more substantial and effective in its place."

Edited By mabewa on 1149209978

welcome_to_the_dark_side · 06-02-2006 07:01 AM

Well i agree with you for some points. However, i never said roger is better than dave, and i am not trying to have this kind of debate.

All what i am saying is: roger takes more chance with his setlist. Having balls means trying to do things in a different way and take risks.

Roger and dave are different just as john (lennon) and paul (mc cartney) are different. They have different approch with music. And thanks god for that, that's why PF was PF. Dave is an excellent musician and have a great voice. But it is well known that roger is far best in writing and composing songs. He is more proactive (Nick Masson words) and maybe that's why he is able to play different versions everytime. I don't know if you listened to Pros and Cons, Kaos and ITF tours but you'll hear different versions of songs. That's what i am talking about.

Gilmour is the first floyd member playing an entire new album live since the 80's! True. This is because he is the only one that have an album out. Roger played Pros and Kaos at that time. You have to wait for roger's new album and see what' he'll do.

As for ABITW, i don't agree. Personally, i prefer to throw away "wish you were here" wich is always the same.
It's not because the ITF version of ABITW is that bad we can say "this song doesn't work well live". The KAOS version of ABITW is excellent and far better than the studio's one.

As i said, roger and dave do things in a different way. If you like to listen studio versions live, dave is great for that. And if you like to hear something different from CDs, roger is great for that.....This is only my opinion..

:;):

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