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whong · 03-30-2007 06:53 PM

Would greatly like to read this one. The one in Rolling Stone was lackluster at best.

Apparently he's still talking about really wanting to rejoin the band, but he wants control. Ahhh yes...good ol' Rog.....some things never change, it seems. I don't think that would fly at all, especially with Gilmour and Wright...and it probably wouldn't be in the best interest of Floyd's future anyway.

I think at this point, the best any of us could hope for would be another Live8 type of event. I do wonder though......perhaps Roger is holding onto his new songs(slated supposedly for solo release) in hopes that he could present them to the other guys as works in progress. Just an hypothesis, mind you....and those songs would have to really be something special or have great potential to catch band interest.

Any thoughts? ???

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BusStopRatBag · 03-30-2007 06:55 PM

"you may be right... you may be crazy..."

mabewa · 04-01-2007 06:19 PM

Quote:Apparently he's still talking about really wanting to rejoin the band, but he wants control. Ahhh yes...good ol' Rog.....some things never change, it seems. I don't think that would fly at all, especially with Gilmour and Wright...and it probably wouldn't be in the best interest of Floyd's future anyway.

I think at this point, the best any of us could hope for would be another Live8 type of event. I do wonder though......perhaps Roger is holding onto his new songs(slated supposedly for solo release) in hopes that he could present them to the other guys as works in progress. Just an hypothesis, mind you....and those songs would have to really be something special or have great potential to catch band interest.

Any thoughts? ???

First, I haven't read the article yet, so I don't know exactly what Roger said. But, saying he "wants control" is not a good way to lure those guys back.

Having said that, it depends on what kind of "control" he means. If it's control like DSotM or WYWH, where Roger gets to write all the lyrics and choose the record's concept, but the other guys get extensive musical and songwriting input, then it could work well. Animals-style "control" where Roger is more dominant in terms of songwriting, but David still gets a major contribution, and the band plays as a real band (rather than as a studio project with an army of backing musicians like The Wall) also might work. But, "control" as in The Wall or TFC will not work. Who would want to go back to that? Also, I gotta say, I think that the band's quality starting going downhill when Roger dominated to that extent--it's not just an unworkable personal situation, but also not not necessarily the best artistic situation, either. I quite like TFC, actually, but Roger doesn't need PF to make a record like that.

It WOULD be interesting, though, if Roger were to present a group of really great songs to the band (with 14 years since his last album, I hope he's got some great ones up his sleeve!), and I could see that possibly enticing them. But, I think that Dave in particular would have the same attitude that he had on The Wall--he would want to contribute musically. Presumably, a new Floyd record, even one written mostly or wholly by Roger, would include a lot of singing by David and hopefully by Rick as well... and if David is going to sing Roger's songs, he's probably going to want to rearrange the melodies. IF Roger could give him credit for that (in many bands, any significant melodic alteration results in a songwriting credit), then I could see Dave being happy. But, if it's a situation like The Wall where "you can write anything you want--just don't expect to get credit for it" (so, for example, Bob Ezrin writes most of the music for Is There Anybody Out There," but Roger gets all the credit), then, once again, no-one is going to want to participate.

Really, I think the best formula for a new PF record would be pretty simple: the 4 guys get together in a studio, without any deadlines or time pressure, and play with open minds. Everybody gets to bring in music. Then, they democratically choose the best bits, and Roger gets to write all of the lyrics and choose the concept. When it comes to playing, they play as a band, all three of the singing members get to sing, and production is done as a band as well.

That's the way they made my favorite records, anyway!

Edited By mabewa on 1175480549

floydfan · 04-02-2007 01:42 AM

I think you're missing something, it was the acoustic nylon guitar part on "Is There Anybody Out There" that Erzin CO-WROTE WITH Roger, but "Is There Anybody Out There" was a piece of music with 3 parts, that roger (maybe with the help of the other floydmembers) had written and floyd had that long before erzin was involved.

You can clearly hear the psycedelic sounds/music/effects that floyd invented and wrote in the early 70 ( clearly heard on echoes), beeing remade in "Is There Anybody Out There", only the floyd can do that...

mabewa · 04-02-2007 04:09 AM

Well, Dave has stated several times in interviews that Ezrin wrote the entire piece by himself. Not the entire song, mind you, but the guitar piece. Roger has never, to my knowledge, tried to refute this, and, considering the amount of sniping between the two of them over the years regarding songwriting credits on The Wall, I've tended to believe Dave's version of the story. Not just because Roger hasn't denied it, but it's hard to believe that Roger came up with a part that even Dave declined to play because he felt he was technically capable of giving it justice (they had to bring in a classical guitarist to play the part).

Anyway, that guitar part takes up about half the entire song, and it's very far from being just a solo--it has melody, harmony, chords patterns--considerably more than the first section of the song does. Even if Roger and Ezrin had co-written it, Ezrin still would have easily deserved a songwriting credit by normal standards.

The controversy over songwriting credits on The Wall stems largely from the reality, acknowledged by everyone involved in the recording, that the album changed rather drastically from the demos that Roger originally brought in to the final version. Although Rick and Nick had been reduced to bit players by this point, Gilmour and Ezrin played an enormous role in the creation of the album, and they have both claimed for years that they were unfairly denied songwriting credits--in essence, according to their version of events Roger accepted their rewriting of parts of his songs, but didn't credit them for it.

I'd love to take Roger's version of events seriously, but it's difficult to take him seriously on the subject when he makes claims like the only part of Comfortably Numb written by Dave was the chord progression--existing demos from Dave's first solo album clearly and conclusively disprove that claim. It's not that I think Roger is dishonest, but it does seem that he believes what he wants to believe when it comes to who wrote what on Floyd records.

Anyway, since it's very common for band members to get co-writing credits for alterations to songs that other members originally brought to the table, Roger would presumably have to be more generous if, as in Whong's hypothetical situation, he wanted Floyd to record an album of material that he had originally come up with. Dave would almost certainly want to embellish many of the melodies, and he would want credit for that. If Roger wasn't willing, Dave (and Rick) would simply walk, and the project would be over.

When The Wall was recorded, the band was bankrupt and they couldn't afford to have Roger withdraw it because of conflicts over songwriting credits. If PF were to record again, however, there would be nothing whatsoever making them go through with the project, and there is no way that Dave and Rick would accept a "you can write anything you want--just don't expect to be credited for it" attitude.

Khaz · 04-03-2007 12:50 PM

I think dave and Rick would want to write a lot of music of their own as well as alter Rogers. As for lyrics Roger would have to have some great lyrics that Dave would think would fit his music otherwise he would rather have Polly wright lyrics.

Philintheflesh · 04-03-2007 04:12 PM

mabewa Wrote:..... but it's hard to believe that Roger came up with a part that even Dave declined to play because he felt he was technically capable of giving it justice (they had to bring in a classical guitarist to play the part).

Mmmh...that`s interesting. Always assumed Dave played that. Wiki tells me it was a guy called Ron di Blasi. I have no problem executing that on a nylon, myself, so I wonder what Dave had difficulties with? :Oo:

scalzmoney · 04-07-2007 03:55 PM

Yes, well that's what's funny to me even as a middling guitarist. The fight over who wrote: Em, C, Esus4 is pretty trivial compared to everything else on that album which is so unique and brilliant.

I guess it's kind-of-like Roger had the idea to paint 'Starry Night' and Bob Ezrin and Dave showed up and said: 'Use blue'. Did they contribute? Yes. Would there be a painting without them? Yes. Would it be the same? No.

Wings on the Pig · 04-08-2007 12:52 AM

Philintheflesh Wrote:
mabewa Wrote:..... but it's hard to believe that Roger came up with a part that even Dave declined to play because he felt he was technically capable of giving it justice (they had to bring in a classical guitarist to play the part).
Mmmh...that`s interesting. Always assumed Dave played that. Wiki tells me it was a guy called Ron di Blasi. I have no problem executing that on a nylon, myself, so I wonder what Dave had difficulties with? :Oo:

Maybe he could play it but he didn't feel like he executed it probably. Like Roger on Have a Cigar, when they recruited Roy Harper.

mabewa · 04-08-2007 07:15 AM

No, most of it's not difficult (I remember picking most of it out by ear when I was about 15!), but A). It's a classical guitar part, and Dave presumably felt uncomfortable with it--probably he wasn't getting the tone right. B). There are a few tricky flourishes--from about 2:10 to 2:20, for example. I'm sure that Dave could hit the notes, but Floyd had suddenly gotten pretty perfectionalist, and he might not have been completely on. They probably just figured that it would sound better if they hired a session player.

My main point, anyway, was that if Floyd was going to get back together and record again, there would have to be a more equitable distribution of songwriting credits. The part we're discussing isn't just a chord progression, it also has a pretty identifiable melody, and it takes up about half the song. In most bands, anybody who wrote such a part (or even co-wrote such a part) would automatically get a songwriting credit.

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