cevor Wrote:yea! fox hunting is baad..mkay? don't hunt foxes mkay? then you'd be baad mkay?

Ok, ok - stop taking the piss :D mkay?

& have heard Nazi=rightwing before, For what it's worth, Stalin was leftwing & was a much more large scale killer than Hitler was.


Ah yes, Coulter. I could well imagine she was joking like she often does. It's easy to take something out of context. I dunno what she actually said or meant, but I have my suspicions short of actually hearing it straight from the horses mouth.

I am not a big follower of talk radio & these cats. I'm Progressive Libertarian anyways. Neither party ever did what it said it would. Libs expanded the amount of people on welfare thereby doubling the problem. Republicans never shrunk the government or got rid of the IRS. Time to move on I say.


I would disagree on the Conservatives hate more again by quoting the charity figures, they obviously care more than left oriented persons by virtue of that alone.

& Take Al Franken, he's just a mud flinger. & I work on major Universities & get to see & hear the current thinking & hear much more invective from Liberals any day of the week compared to Conservatives.



Sound familiar? Who spews hate against religious minorities, ethnic minorities, left-wingers and homosexuals today? Liberals? Uh, no, that would be conservatives.

The word hate again is very misused. If one disagrees with homoseuality, one is labelled a "hate" person. This is very common & a clear example of what I'm talking about. Feeling differently about something does not automatically equate to hate. Many Chinese people & even many in other countries follow Taoism, which teaches the divine union of opposites expressed in the Yin/Yang symbol. They believe the pathway to wholeness is achieved by following this blending of the 2 energies. Which is not in harmony with same sex philosophy. Does this mean they are "hate" people? Certainly not. Just their "view" of life.



Edited By chromeboomerang on 1188969160

I don't equate people who disagree with homosexuality with hate. As a heterosexual, I personally find homosexuality rather odd and distasteful... but that is totally my personal point of view, and I don't let it affect my basic point of view that gay people deserve fair and equal treatment, just like anybody else.

No, I'm talking about real hate here. For example, people who picket the funerals of gay people with signs sayings "God Hates Fags." I'm talking about members of the Aryan nations who very nearly succeeded in a plan to bomb gay clubs in Seattle and Portland--an act that would have killed hundreds of people, including personal friends of mine. I'm talking about gay bashing--randomly attacking people and sometimes killling people who are gay or who appear to be gay. I'm talking about Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson blaming gays (along with liberals, feminists, etc.) for 911. I'm talking about the 1996 Republican candidate for governor, Ellen Craswell, who was an unapologetic religious fundamentalist. One of her chief advisors had advocated that gays be deported or sent to concentration camps.

Now, THAT'S hate... and barely different from Hitler, either. Allen Craswell ended up getting 40% of the vote in "liberal" Washington State. The America I believe in is better than that.

At the risk of sounding repetitious, I do know that most conservatives do not harbor this kind of hate. But, it is still safe to say that this kind of hate comes primarily from the right-wing. For example, when Ann Coulter called John Edwards a "faggot" (a genuinely hateful word, whether used in jest or not), she was immediately condemned by conservatives like Mitt Romney, Rudolph Giuliani and John McCain. Because of this, if I'm debating this kind of issue, I never make assumptions about what individual conservatives believe, and if I hear left-wingers make generalizations like "all conservatives are anti-gay" I usually explain to them that they are completely wrong.

However, this is how I personally feel: I think that left-wing Americans have taken an enormous amount of crap for a long time: told that we are not real Americans, having our patriotism, our loyalty, our very legitimacy as Americans questioned. In my personal experience, left-wing Americans often have a problem with conservative politicians and conservatism itself, but we are much more sympathetic to conservatives as human beings. I know conservatives with similar points of view, but as I mention above, there is a whole cottage industry of people who are constantly attacking "liberals" as un-American. I've often heard my moderate and libertarian friends comment that there is much more hate from the right to the left than vice-versa. Now, that's all from my perspective, and I could be wrong--but I honestly don't think I am.

Anyway, my personal point of view is that, as a genuine "liberal" (which doesn't necessarily equate with "left-wing" at all), I enormously value political pluralism. I wouldn't want to see an America without conservatives... or without moderates, libertarians or anarchists either. I may disagree with people, but I don't want to see them disappear, and I don't think that ANY political group has all the answers on complex issues like the economy, education, social problems, etc.

The reason why I originally took you to task for bringing the whole "liberal" thing into this discussion is that I was defending hunting (at least, hunting for one's food), and this is a normal point of view for millions of liberal Americans. I've lived in NE New Mexico and the Puget Sound area of Washington States, and both of those areas are full of left-wingers and hunters... and very often left-wing hunters. I'm a gun owner and don't consider myself to be pro gun-control (unless you count things like background checks and the Brady Bill, which the vast majority of Americans support). Some of my fellow liberals support severe gun control or are anti-hunting? Granted, and I don't let a political label get in the way of openly disagreeing with them.

Anyway, I feel strongly that if you care about any particular issue, then you should welcome collaboration with people of any reasonable political persuasion--to assume that they disagree with you based on their politics is just to alienate potential allies.

When exactly did I say that I was for gun control? In case you somehow have missed this from my previous posts: I am a gun owner and a hunter.


Somehow I guessed you would have a nice message here for me today, I must be psychic. Um, wasn't referring to you Mab. As I stated earlier, you aren't the average Liberal. My family has 4 Liberals in it. They follow more the pattern I have forwarded. You may be a Maverick sort of Liberal, but again it is my experience that most follow what I have forwarded, certainly the politicians.





It's a movie ABOUT guns, but he doesn't take the simplistic "more guns = more crime" point of view that many in the gun control movement take. He point out that, for example, Canada has a high rate of gun ownership, but much lower murder rates than the US does.



Moore's movie entirely missed the salient most important point about Columbine, which is.. the shooters were drug users, & coming off of heavy drugs & suffering the side effects. In fact EVERY shooter in recent US school shootings were on psychiatric drugs, or coming off of them. Coincides with the many people who have committed suicide on Zoloft & Prozac etc.

http://www.laleva.org/eng....rs.html


http://psychdata.blogspot.com/2007....re.html



Edited By chromeboomerang on 1189211192

I'm really not that concerned about foxes as some of you might be. Although I have to say I find it utterly unnecessary to kill animals for the fun of it rather then for the meat. And I'm pretty sure fox aint that tasty.

I haven't had the chance to read through the entire thread so maby some1 mentioned this before me. I have always looked up to Rogers and thought of him with the most respect. I adore him for his kindness and for his lives work as a front figure in the fight of equality. When that sob moves to the Hamptons and buys himself and Island for $16 million dollar on which he plans to build a retreat for famous people. That my friends is hypocrisy. I know that Roger do a lot of good things. But it is not too hard for a man with all the money in the world to look like he's a saint sharing some. You live as you learn and frankly that's the exact opposite to what he is doing. I honor a man who might not have so much to give but till does it, rather then someone with infinite amount of money sharing a 1/1000 of a % on the needing, making big headlines. Even the christians knew that when you do good, you do it quiet. You don't go around bragging about it.

I might be looked upon as somewhat of an asshole but I really looked up to this man so much. And I feel let down.

Peace out everyone and pleas excuse me for my english, it's not native :P